Conversation by email

I think the best way to undertsand something is to listen 2 different opinions.
I decided to put in the web this conversation maked by email that arrived to my adress PelasgicMoon@hotmail.it
Before beginning, i say only sorry foy the english i used, i am learning it. The blue color is written by the Mitter and the Black one answer is written by the team

OK, I checked your web page and did some reading on the subject, and this is what I tell you.

A. The Etruscan language, isn't Indoeuropean
check: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etruscan_language

B. Albanians and Pelasgians aren't the same, since the Albanian language is an Indoeuropean language, while the Pelasgian is a pro-Indoeuropean language, and also of course the Albanians come 2.000 years after the Pelasgians.
check: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelasgians#Albanians_as_Pelasgians

C. On the subject wether the Albanians are Illyrians, this hasn't been scientifically establish, cause there's 2 different theories about the origins of the Albanian language.
check: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_language and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrian_languages

D. On the Lemnos stele matter, it exists in the Greek National Museum for all to see, and it's been scientifically proven that, it is written with greek characters/letter, but the language is believed to be Etruscan.
check: http://en..wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemnos_stele

Remember friend what I told you in our chat, that in Albania there has been great propaganda with lies against it's people. I remind you that the Hoja regime, used to tell the Albanians that they live in Paradise while everyone else outside is starving and going on strikes. Also that the electric wire fence on the borders, wasn't to keep the people inside, but rather to keep the foreigners who wanted to flood the Paradise -out. Of course, after the borders opened and Albanians fled to Greece (which was the closest) and other places in Europe, they discovered the truth about the lies they've been told all these years.
So I urge you not to fall to propaganda lies that some say again, in order to promote their political purpouses.
 
have a nice day
xxxxx

 

that the Etruscan is a language that is part of the family of languages Indo-europian it is proved by the historical facts (supported from archeology) and those legends supported by ancient mythology that really was the first form of written history and modern Greeks you indoctrinated by a much stronger doctrine of communism as Christianity eastern Greek church which has highlighted in centuries to terrorism and evil on all forms of ancient belief. Remember the ancient temple burned in all balkani, the Academy of Athens and all its ancient philosophers who died submerged in blood because of the cruelty of fundamentalist Christians was made forget for about 1000 years .At the moment you think that I am a Turk Albanian as is used to call the Albanian Greek propaganda sick but you will change idea because I come from a family christian Orthodox as well as you or dear friend. But unfortunately the propaganda of the Greek church which instead of dealing with the belief of peaceful christ, with its Byzantine politics has led many wars and efforts to Balkan nations, has infected up to the spirit of madness you stories a modern Greek history false and lying on behalf of neighbors Albanians on which over the centuries has not arrived they never anything bad, but rather only positive facts. The list of these gestures is very long but I just remember the heroes arvaniti Albanians and the so-called "Greek revolution." Now I do not want to keep too much of the discourse over who was indoctrinated by false story!
We start from the first point, come from Albanians from Illyrians?

Certainly! That view was supported fully from archeology and linguistics. I can cite a long list of historians and linguists who are certainly more reliable source of your information, wikipedia.
The question is if the Illyrians came from Pelasgians ...
The answer to this question is neither by us nor archeology linguistics, for the simple reason that the linguistic and archaeological discoveries related to this historical period are currently very little to reach a conclusion. But fortunately there is help in this case the mythology and ancient historians often and willingly today someone calls them "Greeks" but it is more just if we use the word elleni to specify their ethnicity. According to Herodotus (and if you want I can give you the exact words of this writings about this), the Etruscans were moved about 50 years before the war of troy from the little asia of a reason for great famine that had affected the area. Herodotus says that they was part of lidi of old people on their side who were part of the people of Pelasgians. But at this time although there was a people like (pelasgic) there were many people who spoke the same language, that pelasgian. One of the most beautiful part of the story is where these emigrants stops to lemno and Herodotus says that pelasgians of lemno and lidi spoke the same language. How to show that Herodot not lied, centuries after the famous archaeologists discovered the stele of lemno that is not written in Greek as you say, but Cadmice which later formed the ellen alphabet and the Latin one. But also many other ancient authors write in a natural way as erodoto, that the Etruscans spoke pelasgian language and the language came from the mysterious pelasgic. You say that the Etruscans and Pelasgians spoke a language pro-indoeuropian but this does not mean that their language was not Indoeuropian - but that the people that have made all other Indo-European languages. So it shows that the pelasgic language was a grandmother! But we go forward! Knowing that the Etruscans were in Italy 50 years before the war trojan can determine the date of their arrival in Italy, about 1100 ahead christ.
There were the Illyrians in this period? Where were?

Greek mythology tells us another story, that of cadmo, tebe and creator of the first bearer of alphabet in Greece "which has formed the Latin alphabet and the deformed ellen. When away from now elderly tebe kdamo goes in iliria, illiria honor and welcome he, so for this reason he called his son Ilir. The mythology tells us that this happened before 4 generations of the borning heroes that maked part of the trojan war. Then the Illyrians existed as a people in the territories where Albanians live today at least from 1400 forward christ. Please note that the arrival of Doric in greece happened nell'800 christ forward so that many historians defend the thesis that these Doric was an log Illyrian.
But why we have to think that the pelasgians and Illyrians spoke the same language? It is true that the descendants of the Illyrians were Pelasgians? The ancient mythology tells us that these two peoples were contemporaries and that for centuries have lived in the same historical environment. But speaking the same language? maybe not, but safely their language was very similar to the fact that all the two languages came from the same primordial branch of the Indoeuropean language that you and others call pre-indoeuropian. Some have noticed the similarity between the Albanian today and the Persian ancient Hinduism and ancient language which is the oldest written language Indo things as avesta or veda Hindu. This great wealth that hides the Albanian language in 1900 that some "dhespot" Greeks have cursed (what a horror to curse a language! And others continue to curse secretly today) is the only key to discover the history of the languages of the peoples of Europe but perhaps the mission that these people have on history ...
Maybe it is precisely this fact that nourishes the anti-albanian incomprehensible to some European political movements in which unwanted part of it are you too.

 

hey dude, goodmorning.
All I did was, to send you the pages on the matter from Wikipedia.
I am not an archaeologist, nor do I claim to being an expert on history, or languages, but neither are you. For this reason, I adopt the theories of the experts in the field, and in particular those that are widely accepted, and not of the tiny minorities who are the exception.
It is your right to adopt those extreme views by a handful of "experts", but you should know that such views are usually products of propaganda.
I also remind you, how the Albanian people fell victim to propaganda by the Hoja regime, and thought they were living in Paradise while the rest of the world was starving to death.
If someone isn't prepared to listen to well based scientifically proven arguments, then he's either crazy, or fanatic, and in both cases I cannot have a conversation with such an individual who has his ears closed to anything that doesn't agree with "his truth". You see, in this case the conversation is just a waste of time, and my time is valuable.
 
Now, you write too much for many subjects and it's not easy to answer.
The Arvanites you say are Albanians, and yet they've fought so much and shed lots of blood for Greece, so that makes one wonder why they would do this for a country that's not their own.
You even go on to disclaim the Greek revolution, which has been recognized as such a big event by all contemporary scholars. What can I say?
You talk of Byzantium and you blame it on the Greeks and the Orthodox church, and yet you seem to forget that Byzantium was the Eastern Roman Empire. An Empire with many people from many places. An Empire, that had emperors from many different people -even from the area of Albania today. An Empire, that had religion mainly as a way to connect it's people.
Again, there's nothing more to say on this, although I do know that they commited many attrocities, on the Greeks and the other people who didn't conform to what they wanted.
 
The spirit of madness as you call it, it hasn't been only due to the Orthodox Church. I remind you that it was the Muslims that carried out Holy Wars in the Balkans (Aimos Chersonese) and elsewhere. And pls don't tell me that it was revenge for the Crusaders, cause the people from our Chersonese had never done anything like that to them.
I'm not a hard line Christian, but your writing sounds like you are fanatically supporting the Muslims, which is OK if it's what you want.
 
On the matter that Albanians come from Illyrians, where exactly did you find this? Cause it's been many decades that Albania with many regimes is trying to prove this, but there's no scientific proof. Of course, there must be some Illyrian traces in the Albanian population, but they were completely different tribes according to scholars, not to mention the time difference between them. Don't you know when the Albanians start being recognized as a distinct tribe-nation?
 
To prove that Etruscans were Pelasgians, you discard the widely accepted scientifically proven theories, and instead rely on Greek Mythology and the Stele of Lemnos. But I've already told you that the Stele is Etruscan and the letters Greek. It's in the Athens museum and you can go see it if you don't believe.
That the Etruscans and some tribe living in Lemnos spoke the same language, it is a fact written by the Greek father of History -who didn't care to write propaganda, only the truth. Yet, I don't understand how you come to your conclusions just because in a small island 2 different tribes spoke the same language -that of the Etruscans and wrote it in Greek. I admit, this is a mystery to me cause I try to use logic.
 
Ending this letter, I have to tell you that perhaps you shouldn't be angry with scholars and people in Europe for their scientific theories, but rather get angry with the people of your country who promote these propaganda ideas, only to serve their own political goals.
It's like the Turks saying now, that they didn't come from the steppes, but they are the descendants of the people living in Asia Minor, and all those monuments are their doing.
 
Don't feel bad my friend that the Albanians didn't create such a glorious civilization as the Greeks, or for their insignificance in world history. In fact, very few civilizations of antiquity managed to produce something to promote mankind and elevate it from barbarism..
Be happy, that there were a few times that "Albanians" did make it to world history records, even if it was due to the leadership of Greeks -like George Kastriotis, son of the Byzantine Lord (and you hate Byzantium) Ioannis Kastriotis, and by the way George Kastriotis was called Skenter Bey, meaning Alexander Bey by the Turks. But I forgot, now you'll say that Alexander was also Albanian.
Sorry, but we can't have a meaningful conversation, if we don't base it in arguments scientifically proven, and the people of Europe don't hate Albanians. They just don't care...
 
have a nice day
xxxxx

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You accept the fact that you aren't an archeolog and not a storian, this is understood very quickly because any historian or any linguistic even if greek can't commit the big error to say that arvanitas are greek. Because this is proved by the history and the language of the arvanitas peoples that is the best test to dimostrate dhe truth of my words.
If you want to demostrate your Wisdom about the origin of the greek people and the history of the arvanitas people i suggest you to read the book of the citizen greek (arvanitas) Aristidh Kola “Arvanitas and the greek people origin” writed in greek and edited in public in greek. Aristidh Kola was born in greece in the Kaskaveli campaign in arjon of tebe. He finished the studies at the university of atene and later worked such as the Owner of the arvanitas link in greece. In the year 1995 he created the Magazine "Arvanon". Him Book “Arvanitas and the greek people origin” was publicated 10 times by the greeks books house. you not think not all greek peoples have the brain hidden by the ill nacionalism and for this reason that they themself can't see, they think that the darkness is the only truth that exists. The greek Citizen (and not albanian or turk) Aristidh Kola maked "The language of the Gods" too, the pelasgic Zeusand and the indoeuropian error, and the "arvanitas link proclamation" of the year 1899 that because he cites the kosovo case moved by the love of of the ortodoks greeks (but i can't say christian because this offend christ) for the brothers barbarians ortodoks slavs (Perhaps there is some secret bond of blood?) also the book "greece in the kurthin of the serbs of millosheviç". I can advise you to read also other books of world famous author fron england, french or german that answers to the questions you writed, but knowing that greeks reads a little and speaks a lot, different from the ancient greeks (if really modern greeks come from ancient greeks, and this is REALLY a case to verify and not the origin of the albanians from illyrians!) i suggested you books writed in modern greek because it don't have links with ancient greek as i think a big part of you modern greeks aren't a small drop of blood of the ancient greeks. I think that the books of Aristidh Kola and the light bibliography where its based (the biggest part from greek historians) must be satisfactory to answer the question if arvanitas were albanians or greeks.
And talking about the national hero of albania, the only that resisted the turk invasion and the muslin influence in the estern europe and balkans it have to leave, because who you greeks call georgo and for this reason you think he is greeks, it isn't any doubt that he is albanian and this is writed in all the encyclopedias in the world. But for you greeks indocrtinated that used to translate in your language also the names of persons, enought to read that someone is called georgo and this for you means it's greek. My father it's called andrea but i assure you that he is not greek, he is not jew but just a albanian christian. So you think that one italian that writes georgo "giorgio" or an english that writes "george" or an a french with the same child logic that you use, they have the rights to say that scanderbeg was english or french or italian?
in this case they are right better than you to say scanderbeg was italian english or french, for the simple reason that the scanderbeg family was of belief Christian Catholic and not ortodoks that beliefed greeks bizantins of that time.
The name of the albanian hero scanderneg in tha albanian language is gjergj and i suggest you to don't forget this name.
For the case of the Modern albanians that comes from illyrians, i can give you a infinite list of historians and linguistics from all the europe
-karl treimer "the contribute of the albanian language" (1914), "the problem ilir-celt and the indoeuropians" (1957). "the iliro-albanian contribute of the europian culture"(1968)
-Hans krahe "ancient geographic names of the illyrians of the balkan" (1925), "the illyrian language"(1955)
-Antun mayer "the language of the ancient illyrians" (1957)
-H.olberg "hulumtime of the dictionary indoeuropian of the albanian"
-G. uhliche "ndikimet greke in the spoken dialekt albanian of atica"

i assure you the list is still long and of historians and linguistics from all part of the world. but i suggest you to begin from one of the books of your fellow greek citizen "Aristidh Kola" and later let's continue to change our thinks in sincere way, but without the use of sick ideas of superiority driven by a dark history and imaginary infected in a way incurable your mind and misfortune to many other Greeks. Being poor does not mean being less and without history, because the wealth is a relative thing.
Don't forget that during the italian-greek war was you greeks that comed in albania for the bread and don't forget that history always rebounds!
with respect.....!

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hello my little Albanian friend,
Now, my answer to your last message follows:
 
continuing about the history...
 "You accept the fact that you aren't an archeolog and not a storian, this is understood very quickly because any historian or any linguistic even if greek can't commit the big error to say that arvanitas are greek. Because this is proved by the history and the language of the arvanitas peoples
that is the best test to dimostrate dhe truth of my words.
"

* It started as a friendly conversation, but now I see that you are turning to a sad hostile climate in the conversation. Nevertheless, I will bypass your anti-Greek tone and answer as best as I can.=0AI did say that I'm neither archaeologists, nor historian, but I have done a lot of studying in both fields in University, plus I'm an amateur historian and also write in various magazines articles about history. Let me tell you that, until now no one has proven me wrong in what I have written.=0ASo, the case is about Arvanites now and you say that it is proven by history and linguistics. OK, I'll accept that if you would please prove it to me.

"If you want to demostrate your Wisdom about the origin of the greek people and the history of the arvanitas people i suggest you to read the book of the citizen greek (arvanitas) Aristidh Kola  Arvanitas and the greek people origin writed in greek and edited in public in greek. Aristidh Kola was born in greece in the Kaskaveli campaign in arjon of tebe. He finished the studies at the university of atene and later worked such as the Owner of the arvanitas link in greece. In the year 1995 he created the Magazine "Arvanon". Him Book Arvanitas and the greek people origin was publicated 10 times by the greeks books house. you not think not all greek peoples have the brain hidden by the ill nacionalism and for this reason that they themself can't see,  they think that the darkness is the only truth that exists. The greek Citizen (and not albanian or turk) Aristidh Kola maked "The language of  the Gods" too, the pelasgic Zeusand and the indoeuropian error, and the "arvanitas link proclamation" of the year 1899 that because he cites the kosovo case moved by the love of of the ortodoks greeks (but i can't say christian because this offend christ) for the brothers barbarians ortodoks slavs (Perhaps there is some secret bond of blood?) also the book "greece in the kurthin of the serbs of milloshevic"
* OK, so you r first and foremost argument is based on Aristeides Kolias, and yet you said nothing about the internationally accepted theories I told you, also sited in wikipedia and other Internet renown sources -which are based on the widely accepted theories of scholars !!!=0AOf course Kolas is a Greek citizen, and he did write those books. This is a proof of how free Greek society is, contrary to "other" countries who inprison or worst the scholars who write stuff different from their governement's line, and I think you can understand what I'm saying. Apart from Kolias, there's also other people -Greeks- who have written a lot of stuff which is against Greece as well as many non Greek. Unfortunately for them, their work hasn't received "International recognition" of the learned scholar community. This means that their work is as good as toilet paper...
I remind you, that many times during many periods, many scholars were employed to write stuff that their governement needed for political reasons. All this work is known today and is discredited.
About the Arvanites, I have already told you that the case is blurred by "historic fog" and things aren't perfectly clear. But then, we also know that the Arvanites have always been a very patriotic element for Greece, and shed a lot of blood in her defense. Now, if they were and felt Albanian, would they do so? I believe not, much as I wouldn't die fighting for Albania if the case came up. Next you mention the Serbs and you throw a hint about Milocevits. Of course there is a bond between the Serbians and the Greeks, and this comes not only from religion, but also from history because we have been allies with common interests since the Greek revolution.. There is an exception, during the period of the Macedonian struggle where there was antagonism, but it's to be expected and I urge you to check the same relations with the Bulgarians who are also Orthodox and partly Slavs.
Also, don't forget, that Greeks helped and felt sympathy for the Kurds, and they are neither Slavs, nor Christian...

"I can advise you to read also other books of world famous author fron england, french or german that answers to the questions you writed, but knowing that greeks reads a little and speaks a lot, different from the ancient greeks (if really modern greeks come from ancient greeks, and this is REALLY a case to verify and notthe origin of the albanians from illyrians!) i suggested you books writed in modern greek because it don't have links with ancient greek as i think abig part of you modern greeks aren't a small drop of blood of the ancient greeks. I think that the books of Aristidh Kola and the light bibliography where its based (the biggest part from greek historians) must be satisfactory to answer the question if arvanitas were albanians or greeks."
* thanks for the advice, but I have already read a lot from many writers and even tried to see the "different" view point suggested. Unfortunately, I have concluded that the few scholars who offer a contrary view to the many, had their work done for reasons other than academic or scientific.
You must be careful my friend, not to get carried away from fanaticism and malicious propaganda, even if it is said by your countrymen. This I have always been very careful off, and I have found many incorrect things, or hidden truths, that our gov doesn't like to be shown, but unfortunately is there for all to see. This, is not the case of Arvanites whose identity has been long established by themselves despite religious and linguistic differences that mighthave been. Today, the vast majority of Arvanites believe themselves to be Greek and only a few sad cases -like Kolias- say the opposite.

"And talking about the national hero of albania, the only that resisted the turk invasion and the muslin influence in the estern europe and balkans it have to leave, because who you greeks call georgo and for this reason you think he is greeks, it isn't any doubt that he is albanian and this is writed in all the encyclopedias in the world. But for you greeks indocrtinated that use d to translate in your language also the names of persons, enought to read that someone is called georgo and this for you means it's greek. My father it's called andrea but i assure you that he is not greek, he is not jew but just a albanian christian. So you think that one italian that writes georgo "giorgio" or an english that writes "george" or an a french with the same child logic that you use, they have the rights to say that scanderbeg was english or french or italian? in this case they are right better than you to say scanderbeg was italian english or french, for the simple reason that the scanderbeg family was of belief Christian Catholic and not ortodoks that beliefed greeks bizantins of that time.
The name of the albanian hero scanderneg in tha albanian language is gjergj and i suggest you to don't forget this name."
* About George Kastrioti, this is what wikipedia writes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scanderbeg=0AAbout his father: http://en.wiki=pedia.org/wiki/Gjon_Kastrioti, his name in greek means "he of the castle" and I'm sorry I don't know what it means in Albanian. So, if you want to believe that he was Albanian it's your problem, but the rest of the world thinks different.

"For the case of the Modern albanians that comes from illyrians, i can give you a infinite list of historians and linguistics from all the europe -karl treimer "the contribute of the albanian language" (1914), "the problem ilir-celt and the indoeuropians" (1957). "the iliro-albanian contribute of the europian culture"(1968)=0A-Hans krahe "ancient geographic names of the illyrians of the balkan" (1925), "the illyrian language"(1955)=0A-Antun mayer "the language of the ancient illyrians" (1957)= 0A-H.olberg "hulumtime of the dictionary indoeuropian of the albanian"=0A-G. uhliche "ndikimet greke in the spoken dialekt albanian of atica"=0A* you site some people, but you fail to see what the dominant historical accepted fact is by the wide scholar community. i assure you the list is still long and of historians and linguistics from all part of the world. but i suggest you to begin from one of the books of your fellow greek citizen "Aristidh Kola" and later let's continue to change our thinks in sincere way, but without the use of sick ideas of superiority driven by a dark history and imaginary infected in a way incurable your mind and misfortune to many other Greeks. Being poor does not mean being less and without history, because the wealth is a relative thing.=0ADon't  forget that during the italian-greek war was you greeks that comed in albania for the bread and don't forget that history always rebounds!=0Awith respect.....! "
* Poor, indeed isn't less, but poor in history and contribution to the world, is. Sorry, but I don't remember the great civilization achievements by Albanians, that really helped the world. As for the Greek civilization, you belong to a very small and sad minority that think of it as dark, cause it has always been a civ of light and beauty.
And pls, don't mention the Greek-Italian war, cause we shouldn't forget that Albania also fought in that war against Greece and occupied a part of Epirus when the Germans defeated us and also did a lot of massacres of Greek populations trying to "cleanse the land" with genocide.
As for the bread we asked for in Albania, of course you cannot understand that didn't treat Albanians bad -even though they'd attacked us. Instead we asked for bread that we didn't have, true, we didn't have a huge war machine to support imperialistic dreams like the Germans and I talians. We just wanted to be left alone like always in history. Unfortunately, we always have to prove how brave and great a people we are.
As for your insinuation that modern Greeks don't come from the ancient ones, it's really a pathetic and silly argument. You see my dear friend, unfortunately for you, we have many skeletons from antiquity and so internationally accepted scientists have proven beyond doubt -with DNA tests, that we still are the one and same people.
So have a nice day, and if you reply, pls try to keep it polite for the sake of the conversation. Otherwise, I'll have
to respond and if there's one thing I hate -is emnity in my relation with other people, Albanian or not.
regards
xxxxx

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I would like to join in the discussion between PelasgicMoon and xxxx.

Both of you are not historian, but I am a Greek philologist-linguist and I have studied Greek Prehistory in the University of Athens.

My answer to the Greek xxxxx.

1. According to the mainstream theory Pelasgians were proindoeuropeans and Greeks and Illyrians were Indoeuropeans. That means that Pelasgians language were neither Greeks nor people speaking the Albanian language. But many scientists have expressed the theory that Pelasgians were Indoeuropeans that came to Balkan around 3000 BC. Other scientists think that Pelasgians were indigenous in Balkan and were Indoeuropeans. That means that Indoeuropeans did not came from the north, but the cradle of Indoeuropeans was in Balkan or in Minor Asia, as Colin Renfrew, a famous archeologist, supports in his book Archeology and Language.

2. Albanian language was speaking in the Balkan at least from 2000 BC, because:

- many scientists have translated transcripts in the Aegean through Albanian language,

- several names of Greek Gods and place names could etymologize through Albanian language,

- many “pregreek” words have an Albanian etymology.

3. Greeks are not friends with Serbs. This is a propaganda of Greek Church who consider Serbs as friends because they are Orthodox!!!

4. George Kastriotis was Albanian. If he was Greek why he was the leader of Albanians?

5. Byzantine empire was a disaster for the Greek civilization, that you say you like. In fact Byzantine empire destroyed the ancient Greek civilization and you support the Byzantine Empire!!!

6. Many Arvanites have Albanian origin and many other have Greek origin. See my answer to PelasgicMoon to understand why.

7. The majority of revolutionaries against Turks were Albanians.  

8. You do not accept that Albanians were a very ancient tribe with a very ancient history. This is your problem but the truth is not what you think.

 

My answer to PelasgianMoon.

Dear PelasgianMoon,

1. You are saying that Pelasgians were Albanians and Greeks were not Pelasgians. But A. Kolla in his book Arvanites, the Origin of Greeks, supports that Pelasgians were the ancestors not only of Albanians but also of Greeks. According to him Greeks and Albanians is the same nation.

2. Thoucydides states that “Greek and Pelasgians were the same nation”.

3. Diodorus Siceliotis states that “ The tribe of Pelasgians was Greek from Peloponnese.

4. Several scientists have translated “Pelasgian” transcripts through Albanian language, but we do not know if their translation is correct. Other scientists have translated the same transcripts through other languages such as Semetic.

5. About the origin of Pelasgians have expressed several theories such as they were Greeks, Albanians, Semitic tribes, African people (negroids) etc.

6. Personally I think that Pelasgians were the ancestors of Greek and Albanians and their language is indoeuropean.

7. Now my opinion about Arvanites: Arvanites speak a form of Albanian Language but that does not prove that all Arvanites have Albanian origin. Many Arvanites were indeed Albanians but many other Arvanites were Greeks who changed their language due to Turks. On the other hand many Greeks who speak Greek language are Albanians who hellenized (For example Kosmas Aitolos hellenized thousands Albanians of Epirus). That means that a big part of Greeks have “Albanian” blood. But you should not forget that Albanians also have “Greek” blood. Ancient Greeks colonized the territories of Illyrians and influenced them so much that Romans called south Illyria “Greek Illyria”.

8. You should not also forget that several Illyrians leaders tried to prove that they have Greek origin and they admire Greek civilization. So why you Albanians dislike the ancient Greek civilization? Ancient Greeks create democracy, theatre, philosophy, Olympic games etc. If you want to prove that Greek civilization had an Illyrian influence is another point we could discuss.     

 9. According to me Albanian and Greek language are the oldest languages of Europe from which the other Indoeuropean languages formed.

10. Greeks and Albanians are brothers who unfortunately hate each other.

Regards,

Marios

 

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Greetings xxxxx!
You accuse me to use a threatening tone and anti-Greek for the only reason i have dared to cite some history topics that a dark big wave of orthodox fondamentalista nationalism in politics of the Greek state has made of all in order cancelling from the historical memory. Of sure I do not accuse you of being part of this current but however its infuence in the political and social life of Greece has been strong and is natural that many persons have fallen without wanting it in the waves of these theories before seen nationalists but that in second truth me they have not made nothing else that they have rung today Greece in the borders from "the enemy" people. But let make politics the politicians and we discuss with sincerity on the history. Of what it separates to us and joins to us. You put in doubt the fact that the arvaniti ones are part of the Greek people with Albanian origins and say that you would believe to my words only in the case that i demonstrate it with historical and linguistic material. I think that you would not have had great problems to alone demonstrate it without my help, in how much in Greece today they live approximately 3 million Greek citizens with arvanitiche origins, between which more than 80' 000 they still speak in their houses the ancient arvanitica language and that which also are re-united in groups which they take to part also banns of books and newspapers. I did not say that the arvaniti peoples are Albanian but that they are citizen of the Greek state with Albanian origins. And in order which reason all this horror for this ascertainment quite from makes to feel you provoked? Believe me, to no Albanian never has gone in head to widen the borders of Albania in the Greek earth because only inhabits them Greek citizens with Albanian origins, and because dark agencies of Greek politics have a century that they have made and still they make demanded similar to disadvantage of Albania. I remember you remembers the so-called organizations of "vorio epirit" that interlaced with segments of the Greek orthodox church still today continue in the 21 century their gestures anti-Albanians. But never I have for this reason not thought to make guilty all the Greek people! But we return to the topic of the arvaniti... If tasks that the arvaniti ones are not of Albanian origins (to say the truth second also some "wide awake" minds of the university of atene, do not exist a arvanitica language within the borders of Greece why the arvaniti ones are passings during the wars of the Greek revolution!) you have made a linguistic error large from the moment that you have said the Arvanitas word!


In Greece bizantina the word arvanitas was reported to the Albanians that in this period they were calls arvaniti from the Greeks, arnaut and from the Turks, albanez from the Latins, and arberesh in their language. But leave alone this fact and let’s continue... You memories proudly the empire bizantino and call it as one of the apexes of the Greek civilization... but is true this? With the declaration of the Christian faith from Teodos emperor for Greece and the people elleno, begun a period dark from which it seemed that it would not be more alive escapes, This dark period has had apex with the slaughter of the stage of "Karvalles" where Teodos massacred without mercy 5000 elleni. But what it would have happened after for Greece it would have been still more tragic. The bizantino Christian it stopped the Olympic Games and sluices the famous academy of Platone and many other philosophical schools in all the greece. The ancient temples came destroyed or they was converted in churches and to the marble statues they came cut the witness and came thrown in sea. With all the dune the Greeks did not become Christian and were the single people of the empire bizantino created problems to the emperors bizantini and the Christian church. Then the dune of the Christian empire of still pagana Greece was become larger still more. The commanders bizantini sent in Greece did not come paid from the state bizantino as came made in all the others province of the empire but they had to earn the satisfied one from the taxes that same they imposed based on the preferences. Therefore after to have destroyed to the culture and the bizanti art of Greece with this way of administration it destroyed also the economy of Greece (you see for this Paparigopulos-Kordatos). Words like "Greek worm", "Greek dirt" or "degenerated Greek" have origin in this historical period. But then if Christian Bizanti hated therefore a lot the Greece that still maintained in its spirit the consacration of ancient myths why has decided that the Greek was the official language of the empire? Often also historical professionals turn around to the answer of this question and call the empire anti-Greek of bisanzio empire greko-bizantino only for the reason of the use of the Greek language like official language of the empire. To say the truth the official language of the roman empire of east was naturally the Latin, but with passing of temp the authors bizantini they was found before the problem of the language. Between the people who inhabited in the roman empire of east the Latin was not of the people so the Greek language was much diffuse one and more known for economic and cultural historical reasons. Therefore for practical reasons us of the management of the empire he came decided the Greek like official language of the state. But were "pure" the Greeks (that they inhabited in Greece) those that commanded the empire? Sure that not! In 1000 years the empire bizantino (than tragically for the true Greeks was called Greek) did not have no Greek general and with this I mean, Greeks inhabitants of Greece. But the misfortunes for Greece did not finish here, century V-VI with to the plague and to the earthquakes that destroyed the cities carried with if also the attacks of the Barbarians. Many chronic contemporaries who speak about this dark period say that after century V Greece was destroyed completely from the Barbarians and the Greeks were disappeared completely. Also many modern historians stating these reports maintained to the hypothesis that the native Greeks, (meaning the Greeks who inhabited in Greece not the inhabitants that spoke completely Greek but come from Asia and Egypt) disappeared from the natural catastrophes and the barbaric invasions that happened in Greece in centuries V-VI. But I do not believe to these hypotheses inasmuch as also the Illyrians such as the Greeks lived this difficult period in mountains of Albania also therefore succeeded to survive Come turned out to the attacks of the Barbarians and of the black plague that came from the east the large one, illiria he began to become more smaller. The inhabitants of the ' illiria of the empire began to move themselves towards the inside of the country and found salvation and kept themselves alive in mounts of the illiria of the south (the modern Albania and Kosovo). In means to mountains of Albania the people illiri that they survived to the Barbarian apocalypse, therefore as they would have made also centuries after with the Turkish invasion, with the aid of the armies emperors which in this period represented the consisting units more, they stopped Barbarian and subsequently Slavic sucessive big waves and in this way also the end of the empire bizantino. While the Slavs were resolutions to occupy in majority in destroyed Greece. This great expansion of the Slavs in Greece testifies it many of the chronic bizantine. As an example Teofan extension that in the time of Irenes(782-783) patrizi fù Staurak sent to fight against the Slavs in selanik and Greece and obligated to it to pay taxes. But these victories were momentary and the Slavs became more and more powerful. Therefore second the words of emperor bizantino Costandino VII (912-959)"all the places, therefore all the Greek peninsula had become Barbarian". In relation to this problem the same emperor tells one history. When a man from the peloponneso began to speak about its origin ellena, great Eufenau philosopher laffed about him with these words, "You indeed make well to boast yourself of your ellen origin, also because in your gestures i feel the Slavic smell". (you should remember these words xxxxx because they are prophetic words, why also in many "modern Greeks", the thoughts and the politics that they make and they apply it feels the Slavic sign). Just for this reason the empire has thought that in order to stop the complete slavizzation of Greece to allow immigration of the citizens illiri of the empire in Greece of the south until to the peloponneso. In effects inhabitants illiri and Greeks of the empire they joined them many things in common that makes them different from the Slavs, political and historical accomunations like inhabitants of the same empire to the roman beginning then bizantino, cultural it bases to the light expansion of the Greek culture, and finally tie where they had the same ancient sideboards and those modern Christians. This alliance and collaboration between the 2 people it attract attention also when Mihal Komnio Angel forms despotatin (despotato) of Greece in Greece centers them and in alliance with the founders arberesh (arvanitas) of the peloponneso like Luan zguro and with the founder Dhemeter of the despotato one of arberia test to rebel to the frank invasion. Greek historians as Kordati does not have good opinions for the Greek Mihal Komnio and neither for arberesh the Luan Zguro for the reason that the first one created despotato of Greece dividend it from the so-called empire of Nikeas that was the successive one of politics of the empire bizantino after the fall of costantinopoli in the hands of the franki and for the other reason why killed Mitropolitin of Corinthit. But all these 3 founders wanted to make the battles and to make their politics in Greece and Albania (arberia) trying to depart from politics of costantinopoli and of the empire bizantino. For this reason Mihal Comneo Angel called its state despotati of Greece and in effects as Dr. Jorgo Haxidhaqis writes "the reason ellena was foreign for the bizantini until the time of the Komni and just after they it became some more stronger" (revista Evdhomas 1884). The orthodox church hated Luan Zguron for as it had been behaved having tried to suffocate a bishop (mitropolit) putting therefore in extension indifference between the church bizantina that was taken care (therefore also like today) of politics in place of taking care itself of religion. But its behavior would be meant desire to return in the ancient sideboards ellene that still it was not died and it would have explained its survival with the lessons of philosopher Gemisto Pletone, xxxxx (Costantinopoli 1355 ca - Mistra, Shares, 1452), which the birth of the period would have become the diffuser of the ancient philosophy in Europe destroying of the European rinascimento. For Luan Zguron, P.Karolidhi in History part V "of the Greek people" says that its last name "Zgura" is Albanian. Time after this last name comes repeated on Mauricio Bua Zgura or Scura as Halkondili says. From the Zguro name (in Sguro Greek) and from it pronounces in Greek sgurae says karolinthi comes the Sciro name that we find in the Albanians (Arberesh and Arvaniti) of the Sicily. But Luan Zguro has not been the single founder of origin arberesh (arvanita) or illiro in the period of the frank occupation, a series of families with the same origin plays a role a lot important in the history of Greece, these was Vranaj, Dhoksa, Boxharet etj etj. I assure to you that also today you can find in Albania many families that have these last names, for this enough that controls the book of the numbers of telephone of the republic of Albania, and are is of Christian, orthodox or catholic sideboard or also muslim why for the Albanians today like also those of a time (riucorda Luan Zguron) does not have importance the religion but God. How much had been large the expansion of the arberesh (arvanitas) in Greece understands from the letter of Mihal Akominatos di Honia mitropolit (the bishop to it) of atene around to years 1180. It considered its sent in atene one punishment. Atene had been reduced in poverty, null of similar regarding the reputation of the ancient Atene, and says: "This people do not respect the Christian church, I feel one foreigner here becausee these persons (Athenian) speak a foreign language" But wich was this disowned language spoken to atene in 1180? That official could not be the popular Greek that it could be understood from Mitropolit, therefore like could not be the Slav or the Serb why all and 2 these languages had their alphabet and were official languages of the slaviche states of sure mitropolit it knew well and he would have understood if these peoples had spoken to the Bulgarian or Serb, and for the same reason it could not neither be the Latin. This disowned language that the peasants spoke about Atene could not be other else than the Albanian or the arvanita language that was not known to Mitropolit why was not official language of no state and it did not have a known official alphabet. The arvaniti ones of century XI would have followed arvaniti that they would have been scattered in Greece in centuries XIII-XIV and the XV and would have freed completely it from the Slavs. The first signs we find them in the Tessaglia in years 1295, years in which its ancient name was forgotten and was called Vllahi or large Vllahia. The Vllehiani complained with the governor of the empire for the tessaglia for the attacks of the Albanians and it promises them with these words: "I will not permit that albanians will live her a part those that have the permission with the stamp and art of the empire". But in alliance with the Greek citizens of tessaglia the Albanians in little time they removed the vllahi from the tessaglia and those that remained created some campaigns in mounts of Pindo. Time little later other arvaniti arrived in the tessaglia and they were scattered in the zones mounts some. A test of this, is Kadakuzhini in 1333 where it is said "are in the empire of the tessaglia, in the tessaglia mountain, arberesh without king, Mallakase, Buej and the Mesarit, it commands from the heads of the groups are approximately 12000 persons". These arberesh (arvaniti) according to Kordatit were tied with the empire Androniku III and entered to its service like fighters. A test of Vendikasit Marin Sanuto exists also that wrote in year 1325, what writes here: "God has carried this arm in our calm place of Vllahise (the name of the tessaglia in this period had been forgotten). The so-called ones arberesh are resolutions to conquer all which are found outside from the castles. The Catalans and the greci(bizantini) have made an alliance in order to strike them in battle but they have not had happened. To the end it writes that they (arberesh) decide to go away themself but the others arberesh that was arriving ask they. Where are you going? We are returning behind because we do not succeed to conquer the castles - they answered - not gone away because we are coming also and we will help you to conquer, they answered to the firsts. Therefore all entirety conquered all the Tessaglia." Therefore it has happened that the tessaglia it came to with the aid of arberesh the it taked its ancient name. After some arvaniti years the arberesh of the tessaglia would have only defended it like if it had been their place. In the 1318 they fight against Don Alfonso Feadrigon di Tebe the founder of the Katalano army, In the 1335-1340 they rebelled to the expansion bizantina and this wants of independence from the conquests of the east bizantini was a continuation of their political and spiritual cause that pushed them in the alliance with the Greeks of Mihal Komninit and Luan Zguris against politics of the empire of Nikeas. Similar examples of the expansion of arberesh in all Greece that we find in the reports of the time are many. Therefore in the 1383 arberesh they were scattered to Bioti, with the demand for the head of Tebe Ramon De Vilanova. But in this period a group of arberesh takes the permission to live in Atik and they were scattered around to the acropoli and in the southern part of Atene. In year 1402 we have one concession of the senate of Venedikt for 300 families arberesh to live in Eube. The particular thing of all these documents is that in all these cases arberesh settled in Greece with desire and the concession of the local authorities and put to they disposition of the authorities their combat capacities. But why the authorities preferred arberesh for their armies rather than Slavic or Turkish units that equally were known for the quality in war? The answer seems only one, the first population arberesh of Greece totally accepted the takeover in their lands of the persons who spoke to their same language like also these, what that he would not have succeeded if those that they came had been Turkish or Slavic. The Arberesh (Arvanitas) of century XV joined with the population of the ancient Greeks and with the arberesh that they were it arrives to you in Greece between centuries VI-VIII and this spiritual joining looked at when the Turkish armies went in Greece. Therefore when the two siblings of the last empire of the empire bizantino, Kostandin Paleologut scares from the expansion of Kostantinopoli was prepared to sell the peloponneso and to go away in Italy, the arvanita people of Greece and the ancient Greeks fought until the end in order stopping the Turkish been left over one. The Greek modern historians head to defend the thesis that these speakers of the Albanian language that they arrived in Greece in disappeared in the centuries VIII-XV for the reason that even if they were tousants died in the battles against the Slavs or the Turks. But why is asserted this thesis from the Greek modern historians? In order which reason is indispensable to make official that the arberesh of disappeared in the century VIII-XV? The fine ones is clearly political, and politics never have not been allied of the truth. But then, if the arvaniti ones disappeared in the centuries VIII-XV, who were the arvaniti ones of Aticobiotise, Lorkides di Eubese, of the islands of Saronikut, Hidres and Speceve, Argolidhes and Korinthit, Akaise and Mesines? What was and is the arvaniti ones of Greece of the north? They are greek albanized, is the answer of the Greek historians. But even if not credible this answer is more honorable of your affermation (if indeed you believe in it!) that no language arvanitas different of the greek exists. But why all this engagement in order to eliminate from the history of Greece, the arberesh that they spoke Albanian about centuries VIII-XV? Much simple one, why the arvaniti heroes of the Greek revolution of the 1821 had to seem from speakers of the Albanian language to speakers of the Greek language. But being that this was impossible why of that period many written tests exist that they speak about the identity and of the language that many then spoke about these heroes arvanitas it asserted the second theory which these persons really spoke dialekt of the Albanian language (a language arvanitas) but Greek they were albanized. Reason of this was the analphabetization, and being that the Albanian language was easier of the Greek language then many illiterate Greeks (the Albanians was illiterate aswell) for practical reasons learned to speak Albanian! But it seems that neither this version of the history is not liked to the modern Greek historians and then thought to completely cancel from the witnesses the Arvanitas nation. If the Arvanitas word were then passing from the history books the need of the delicate arguments of people arvanitas in Greece or of a language would be been born neither arvanitas that it was various from the modern Greek. I say modern Greek because as they show the dictionaries of the language arvanitas beginning from that one written from one of the heroes of the Greek revolution, Marko Bocari, that one (the language arvanitas) is much similar one to the homeric greek language. But why gave therefore much to make modern the historians Greek in order to change to the identity and the language arvanitas and later to cancel completely their name from the history books? The answer is simple! Why 90 of 100 heroes of the Greek revolution were arvaniti! In 23 August 1821 DH. Ipsilianti sends the combatants of the Greek revolution, arvanitas mysliman and Christians and to those Albanians one letter of thanks for the first victories against the Turks. Between the others, it was written: "Men, combatant faithfuls, to the commanders Needle Vasjari, Ceko Bej, Myrto Cali, Tahir Abazi, Sulejman Meto, and the others toski. You Toske (Albanian of the north) do not have origin from orient (Asians) cowardly and neither from the Slavs without reputation, you are the descendants of the heroes from which also we come from and your name will remain famous and respected doubt in all the reigns of the world. You have been with us in the battles for the freedom... " (M.llambrinidhi. "the allavani en eladha" page 86). But Ipsilanti mistook, arvaniti muslim and Christian but also the those of Albania of the south that fought for the freedom of Greece, orients it them arrives from Asia (Christian orthodox of the Asia Minor to which was enough the religion that they had in order to call them Greek) and the Slavs would have to it stolen all, also the name. To say true desire to make to disappear the indispensable role that the arvaniti ones had in the Greek revolution was born outside from the borders of Greece.

The idea of the creation of one be Greek in the expanded beginnings of century XIX in all acculturated, attracted Europe from the Greek ancient culture and of its philosophers. The earth that it had made to be born Homero, Sokrate, Demokriti, Platone, Aristotle.... deserved of being free. The aids for the Greek revolution were had in all Europe. But after the Victoria of the Greek revolution the Europeans were found of forehead to a great unexpected. A great part of the inhabitants of Greece did not speak Greek! This would have asserted also the king to it of Greece xxxxx which it would have said "the arvaniti ones represent the majority of our people". Just in this period a German linguista said with irony "Tried to form an ancient Greece but they created one new Albania". If in Greece between the combatants of the revolution, the arvaniti ones were the greater part then in whichever way this relationship it had to be changed. In order to arrive to this objective it was attempted to begin give it to part of Greek schools where the single language that was taught was the Greek (the Albanian still did not have an official alphabet for the writing of its language and the orthodox church made all the possible one in order to make in way that this alphabet was not never born using also the public curse, or the not-church for those Albanians who tried to learn to write their language). And in other part with the insertion in Greece of other orthodox populations (and for this reason they were called Greeks!) from the Asia Minor or Vllahia. Endured after the Victoria of the revolution they began the movements of many orthodox ones from the Asia Minor towards free Greece arriving to the point that in Greece settled down 1' 500' 000 orthodox inhabitants arrived from the Asia Minor, the arvaniti ones became in minority in Greece for the freedom for which they had fought. Sure, these "new" Greeks (spoke indeed Greek, but they were truly such) the idea seemed unacceptable that the arvaniti ones had given to Greece the freedom to it. For they one was looked at alone alternative! The memory of the arvaniti ones had to disappear from the history of Greece. They (the arvaniti ones) did not have to exist and neither their cursed language! But the truth and the facts speak in various way! In the 1897 the party with the name is created in Greece "Arvanita Alloy" with head Marko DH.NOTI Boçari and of the descendants of the heroes of the Greek revolution of 1821 made part all. This alloy sends a letter also to the Albanians after the borders that still were under Turkish domination. It was looked at written: "siblings, for how much can divide the place to us and the religion we must forget the problems end where the Turks and the religion have carried us. Many things join the Greek people and that Albanian. The Greek, before becoming such was Albanian, therefore pelasgico. Greek means civilizzato Albanian." The letter was signed from M.N.Boçari, Xhavela and Shehu. With this letter the heroes of the Greek revolution who were still alive and their descendents call the muslim Albanians "siblings of one single language" accepting therefore also their origin. About this an other fragment of the history of the arvaniti ones speaks also... During the funerals of Marko Bocari, after the liberation of Greece, Mitropolit di Artes Porifirio Marko Bocarin calls, founder arvanitas, of Greece. The new king Othoni watches it with astonishment to Mitropolit (bishop). Seeing the astonishment of the king Mitropolit he says to it: "yes, king, Albania has made to be born the founder of your place!" (leondios lendiu "Albanian case" 1897 page 45-47.) But therefore as Marko Bocari was the greater part of the heroes of the Greek revolution like Xhavella, Miaulis, Konduriotis, Kollokotroni, Wings Farmaqi, Odise Andruco, Heroina great Bubulina. What is up then to the arvaniti ones from Greece? Orgo Maruga (studious Greek) in its book "the contribution of the arvaniti ones of efsines" answers: "the freedom" was arvaniti also the first three members of the commission that delivered the real crown of Greece to the king Othon and these were, Andrea Mialuli, Marko Bocari and Dhimiter Plaputa. Not continuous beyond with speaking about the decisive role that they have had the arvaniti ones for the birth of the Greek state, for this they could be written thousands of pages and neither this it would be enough. You ask if arvanita language (various from that Greek exists one)? Confronting with this question the bankrupt ideas of many modern Greek historians second which the arvaniti ones Greek were albanizzati or worse, than they they had as language mother the Greek. In the year a 1809 boy of 19 years gives to the French councilman to Janine Pouqueville, a dictionary written from him for desire to perhaps help the councilman who wished to learn the arvanita language. This boy of 19 years would have been a hero who will be in the Greek revolution, Marko Bocari. In the May of the year the 1819 French councilman gives to the dictionary of Bocari with the title it "Dictionary from the Greek of the simple arvanito one" to the French national library. Marko was not without-school, inasmuch as it had studied in the university of korfuz that also it is known like "akademia of jonit". And of sure the ancient Greek knew well and that modern but however this was not its language mother, and this is understood a lot clearly giving a glance to the dictionary written from him. While the words in Albanian were written correctly and without errors, in those Greeks they notice many errors, and this would with the outermost certainty not have happened if the Greek had been its language mother. But if the arvaniti ones spoke Greek, then why would be been born the need to write a dictionary Greek-arvanito? If you notice the dictionary of Marko Bocari that subsequently would have scattered blood and would have given the life in order to give the freedom to Greece, you will intuit endured that from a part that the arvanita language and the Greek were two various languages, and from the other part that the arvanita language and that Albanian are one single language. But why Marko Bocari wrote this dictionary? The days of the unions anti-Turks were approached! But why this alliance had had happened, all the Greek inhabitants of arvanita Greece and had to be only people even if spoke two various languages. Of sure various, but attention, not foreign one from the other! In Greece of the pre-revolution and that one of the first years of the existence of the first Greek state, the arvaniti ones in natural way spoke Greek and with the same naturalness also the Greeks spoke the arvanita language. Making the part of the Greek revolution had dreammed to construct one be free decidedly various from the state prison of the Turkish empire, in which as the Albanian Greeks and also had suffered together. But with all and the two people and the two languages they would have fought for the freedom of Greece and had to construct the bases for the new state. But this is only remained a dream! The Christian bankers asiati (Armenian Hebrew Greek parlors, for this reason called if same Greeks after the Victoria of the revolution) of the poor sultano their hands in free Greece (without to fight or to give contributions for the freedom of it) that it had gained independence from the force of the dreams of the revolutionary having made they private property and transformed the Greek state in one copy come badly of the fondamentalista state and autocratic Turk. Marko idealist as all the revolutionary was a worshipper of the freedom and sure did not imagine that only some ten of years after its dead women to the arvaniti ones would have been stolen the freedom of the language and that one of the existence. Abundant tests of the existence of the arvanita language find also in many documents and letters to them of the heroes of the Greek revolution, but a document much decisive one of the language arvanita after the dictionary of M.Bocari that test completely that the arvanita language was various from that Greek and tutt' with the Albanian is entitled book "NOCTES PELASGICAE", published to Atene year 1855 from a sure "KARL HAINRICH THEODOR REINHOLD. But who was this reinhold? Karl Reinhold was a doctor from Getingeni, in the north of the Germany and came in Greece with to the first king of independent Greece OTTON of the Bavaria in order helping it for the creation of the new state. Karl Reinhold in the Greek new state had the task of the head-doctor of the naval fleet, had the opportunity to know many arvaniti that that time composed the majority of the Greek naval fleet. Interested from this language that it never did not have felt Reinhold it began to wanting to learn the arvanita language and wrote in this language all several the events, history or jokes that sailors and its friends told to it.

According to Reinhold the arvanita language was the language of the mythologic pelasgians, the language from which the same ancient Greek was been born. Even if written nearly 200 years ago i assure to you that every Albanian today can easy comprise the written witnesses of Reinhold in arvanita language. You ask if why the arvaniti ones being Albanian fought for Greece? The answer to this question is much simple one! Why Greece for the arvaniti ones like also for the Greeks who lived in Greece was their place! (creed that the history of the people arvanita in Greece which i have tried to reassume here over test this). You ask why the arvaniti ones left to lose their arvanita descendancys! After the big wave of the orthodox ones asiati in Greece (which were of descendancys Egyptian, Israelite, Syrian etj etj), the arvaniti ones that they had fought for the freedom of Greece unexpectedly became in minority and the Asian majority which had not scattered no drop of blood for the revolution Greek and that they could not accept that the freedom of greece was merit if arvanitas, decided in Greece the rules second which in Greece did not exist no other people a part of that Greek (Christian orthodox) and other language except the Asian Greek did not exist no who in truth was a lot different from the Greek that the same Greeks spoke who lived in Greece before the single road in order to survive this situation for arvaniti (the heroes of the Greek revolution and their successory ones) remained to hide their origin. But be sure that new times are arrived, and the race of mountains of Albania and the Greece that has gained many times on the Asians as the large one said Alexander to us and as Ipsilanti to the Albanian and arvaniti commanders of the Greek revolution wrote, is not died. It is alive and strong! The arvaniti ones, even if the violence against their language and their history goes ahead, has begun to join, to write books and to show of forehead to all Greece their legal proud for the language and theirs descendants. You xxxxx, blinded from hatred nationalist say that the Albanians are poor not only from the economic part but for more they are poor for the contribution that they have given as people to the civilizzazione of the world! I make excuses myself, but your words are ridicules! We do not speak about the contribution that Albania has given to the world inasmuch as the topic of the argument would be increased very, and is concentrated on the contribution that the Albanian people have given Greece. I say given why the Albanian people, never and no time have intentional for its gift, for the blood scattered for the freedom of Greece, neither a reciprocation moral! I do not wish to newly cite the contribution of the arvaniti parlors of abanese in the birth of new and independent Greece after that for this argument task to have given many facts to you on which you would have to reflect more leaf through the pages of historical documents and not of the "Internet resources" with which you express yourself with security and to discover finally the truth. The Greek revolution would not have won if it had not had the hand of Ali Pash Tepelen. The independent state that created this pasha from Albania of the south became the place where they found protection and they came educates in military within many to you of the heroes of the successive Greek revolution, those of muslim sideboard therefore like also those of Christian sideboard. Like once Mihal Komnio Angel, Ali Pash Tepelena dreammed to create an alliance anti-Turk (anti-istanbull as komnio it wanted to create an alliance anti-costantinopol) in which were the Albanians of Albania and arvaniti and the Greeks of Greece trying subsequently to find support in the English diplomacy to the beginning and that French. Therefore in the diplomacy of the western state in contrast from the orthodox ones asiati to us that they tried the salvation in the Slavs and the Russian empire that therefore as Turkey was one prison of people. Here over i have cited the letter of thanks that Ipsiliant sent to the participants of the revolution, arvaniti and Albanian Muslims and Christians for congratulatings for the first victories against the Turks. It was the same Ipsiliant (official of the Russian army with Greek origins (orthodox) from the part Fanar di Istanbull) that the Greek revolution helped organizing one turned anti-Turk in Rumania. But its strained was blocked after that the Rumanians hated the so-called Greeks of Istanbull inasmuch as these were the bankers who taked the taxes in Rumania in the name of the sultano. After the block of the revolt of Ipsilant in Rumania, Ali Pash Tepelena were found again alone the been left over one of the Turkish army. But even if the rivoltà of Ali Pasha tepelen ended in the blood, it helped (holding blocked for some years the imperial army) the Greek revolution to having the first victories. You incredibly speak me for an aid (imaginary) that he has had the Greek revolution from the Serbian siblings! I'm sorry to contradict but the single main aid the Greek revolution it not had from no other people of the Balkans except that Albanian! The Greek history tries to hide this Albanian role in the Greek revolution being cited the role of the Albanians in the Turkish army anti-revolutionary! Not to forget that in this period Albania was part of the Turkish empire and was natural that many Albanians of it made part with various degrees in this army. But this fact does not play difference in front of the role of arvaniti and the Albanian state of Ali pasha tepelena that the base that fed the Greek revolution and the revolutionary. It is ridicule the accusation which the Albanians with to the Italians attacked Greece in the second world war inasmuch as Albania from the 7 april 1939 was occupied from the Italy of Mussolini. Therefore as it is ridicule the fact that the Greek state even if has signed many deals you of friendship with Albania still has in hand the law of the war with Albania while that it has removed the law of the war with Italy from year 1946. Sure it is clearly that the maintenance of the law of war with Albania does not have no historical or political reason but is simply the continuation of the movement anti-arvanita anti-Albanian and of the Asian-orthodox segments that have imprisoned Greece in the prison of their fondamentaliste political. But this modern behavior of the Greek state against the Albanian people is not other that the continuation of the Asian-orthodox movement that beginning with the moral violence against the arvaniti ones and continued with the military and criminal political violence against the Albanians in epiro Albanian and the those in Albania of the south. For he turns out shame and criminal of this behavior of the Greek state (attention, Greek state, not Greek people!) to disadvantage of the Albanians is much to say there and historical documents are many historical documents (and not Internet resources). We can discuss to along but i task that this harmful part for the Albanians and shame for the Greek state is better to speak of in an other moment. Just from this Asian movement orthodox and anti-arvanita and anti-Albanian arrives xxxxx your sympathy also and appreciation and from many Greeks blinds from the crisitana demagogy for the siblings Slav-Serbs and the criminal anti-Albanian Sllobodan Milloshevic. Many Greeks with to the representatives of the Greek church were in hand to the Serbian criminals of the war during the slaughters that these made in Bosnia like that infamous of the Serbenica. Before answering to me i suggest to you to read to the book of Greek journalist Takis Mikas (an other enemy of the greece?) with the title "Greece and Serbia, alliance cursed with Milloshevic".
Salutes!

 

 

 

 

 

The conversation is still continuing, i will update it during the time